Exploring the Hubbub Over the Ground Zero Mosque
This is not an issue for government and in the process brings up the issue of individual rights vs. collective rights. The mosque property was legitimately purchased and it is up to owners alone to decide how to develop that property. For some it is a negative reminder of 9/11, while for others it is a holy place of worship. The test of liberty comes when someone wants to do something that goes against your ethics or beliefs. As Ron Paul, Jesse Ventura, and others heading the freedom movement today have said; it is not popular ideas that need protection, but rather unpopular ideas. One of the major challenges of freedom is knowing you are not going to get your way every time, as any rational human being would know after living in this world for a day. Freedom lets us do what we like but at the same time we must tolerate actions and ideas we might not necessarily connect with. Voluntary exchange in a free market joins ideas and cultures together in a cooperative way that governments couldn’t dream to achieve.
As a vegetarian I don’t necessarily “appreciate” the display of meat on nearly every fast food outlet’s windows, but it doesn’t give me or the government the right to physically prevent the restaurant owner from operating and developing his property as he sees fit. My personal preferences, ethics, and morals are not used as an excuse to take away an owner’s right of using, developing, and advertising his restaurant. Every individual has different morals and beliefs, and it is not up to government to choose one way or another. Ideas must flow free, they cannot be compartmentalized and narrowed as the state often manages to accomplish with its endeavors. If I don’t eat meat, I don’t buy meat. The store still has every right to advertise as it sees fit, and I can choose for myself whether they have a product worth buying or not. Freedom is choice, you have to be responsible and understand that not everyone sees the world as you do.
Those passionately protesting the mosque are essentially asking government to interfere in private property in order to better serve the morals and values of the people of New York City. Government is the last entity you want organizing taste, morals, and ethics. If so many people are downright opposed to the mosque, the last thing that would be necessary is government intervention to block development of the land. Obviously the only way the mosque could productively survive is if people choose to worship there. As with any business or private organization in a free society, the final regulation is up to individuals. The fate of a project lies in the hands of individuals, not central bureaucrats disconnected from society and reality. If the mosque is really being put up as an “in-your-face” to America by radical Muslims and no one actually wants to worship there, it’s going to take a substantial amount of money to maintain. An organization cannot survive without support, yet these protesters believe that once the mosque is built it will be there for good. It may be there for awhile, but only if it has legitimate support and consistent worshipers. Without support it will be a financial burden to maintain. Such is the natural process of rewarding productivity in a free market.
This is no different than if a Christian church branch opened up exclusively for one-legged peach farmers. Such a church will likely fail because there aren’t many one-legged peach farmers to go around in the first place. If there is demand for a mosque in New York City, so be it. Obviously they feel there are enough Muslims in the area to make it a worthwhile endeavor. Are you really going to get so incensed because a group of people want to worship in a particular way? Such a misguided view of intolerance and discrimination is exactly what leads to the disintegration of freedom and liberty.
With our time, labor, and money we are “voting.” We support certain businesses and groups and withhold our money from other organizations. I choose not to support meat producers and instead make the choice to spend my money on vegetarian and meatless products. In a free market voluntary exchange based on individual needs and preferences keeps regulatory power in the hands of individuals. Government regulation uses collective force to take away individual power and choice and instead give it to a select few bureaucrats who are appointed to make certain decisions for the rest of the people. Whether it be the ability to confiscate income or make the final decision on the mosque at Ground Zero, the issue at hand is one of principle. Do we really want to entrust our power as individuals to bureaucrats who haven’t even been elected by the people? In a new age of creativity how does a powerful central government help the people more than it destroys their creativity, productivity, and natural organization? Government hinders freedom. Government blocks creativity. Government survives only through coercion, and that coercion comes at the expense of our lives, liberty, and property.
It is time that we choose liberty over government. It is time that we stop treating ourselves like children and acknowledge the risk and responsibility that inevitably comes with freedom, but it is a small price to pay to be free. Without this understanding in principle, the mosque protesters cannot expect to achieve anything worthwhile. Avoid the uncreative and coercive trap of government and choose tolerance, responsibility, and freedom!
You make some great points, David. I agree we don’t want the government controlling and dictating morals and ethics, etc. But that is EXACTLY why some people are protesting the mega-mosque – because they feel too much Sharia is already creeping into our culture. And there is a concerted effort int that direction…And under Sharia – the GOVERNMENT IS TOTALLY IN CONTROL OF MORALS AND ETHICS.
Also the millions of dollars that will build the mega mosque are said to be coming mostly from Saudi Arabia. So – if this mosque is to promote tolerance and multiculturalism – why don’t they start in their own country?
You might do well to at least take a look at this:
“What Educated Non-Muslims Don’t Like About Islam in a Nutshell”
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/09/what-non-muslims-dont-like-about-islam.html
And definitely watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jhx_2TqffE
You wrote:
“…Those passionately protesting the mosque are essentially asking government to interfere in private property in order to better serve the morals and values of the people of New York City…”
Is this really true? I don’t know what the people are hoping to accomplish and how…But we do know they are practicing right to assemble and right to free speech…The right to voice their displeasure and discontent. The are not demonstrating in front of city hall – but in front of the proposed mosque site…A mosque that originally was named “Cordoba” and was slated to be dedicated on the 10th anniversary of 9-11
It could very well be the 11th hour on free speech and constitutional rights that we hold so dear…That is the issue – and that is the passion…
http://www.takethepledgereadthequran.com/
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/08/quran-is-written-in-code.html
Quote from above:
I have said it so many times, you’re probably sick of hearing it: The most important thing non-Muslims can do to stop the advance of the third jihad is to get every non-Muslim we know to read the Quran. And ideally, to read one of the unscrambled versions: A Simple Quran or An Abridged Koran…”
You might appreciate this perspective from Geert Wilders:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/
“…Geert Wilders is that hero.. He has done this at immense personal cost, such that he now must be accompanied by armed guards at all times. One would think that the constant threats made against Geert Wilders would wake people up to the true nature and lethal character of the enemy we face, when they are so threatened by the telling of the truth that they’re willing to commit murder in response. Yet even as Geert Wilders is defamed, vilified, and marginalized, he is being proven right by the events of every day — and the light of the truth he tells shines more brightly all the time…”
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/
David,
I consider myself a lover of freedom, almost to the point of anarchy. Personal freedom should be the ultimate goal of every human being. As you are aware it is government (i.e. laws) that removes our freedoms.
However, there are times when freedom must be rescinded for the overall good of the people. For instance, in America we all agree to drive on the right hand side of the road. Without some degree of law there would be total anarchy and civilization cannot thrive in total anarchy. There must be some, minimal, restriction of our freedoms.
There was a time when I agreed with your point of view on the mosque. Our laws allow them to build there and we are a country of laws. However once you start digging out the truth, as Mary Lousie has pointed out, you begin to realize this mosque is not exactly as it appears on the surface. At a different period in time, perhaps building a mosque near ground zero would be acceptable. However we are currently at war with “Islamic extremists”, and I use that term loosely.
Once you start searching for the truth it becomes obvious that this mosque is a continuation of Islamic tradition, a tradition of conquest and dominance.
Believe me when I say I am not an Islamphobe. I have known several Muslims and they appear to be good decent people. However, the more I read about Islam and Shiria law, the more I am concerned about Islam and its violent influence on the world.
Would you allow anyone who has killed your family to build a house next to yours, people who say they want to kill you as well? I don’t believe you would say, “Well, the law allows them to build here, so…” No, I believe you would fight to stop the erection of that building and to prohibit those who want to harm you from living near you. Such is the case with this mosque.
There are still too many unknown factors concerning this mosque to allow construction.
Islam and Sharia law, as I understand it, is the very antithesis of freedom!
Hi Kevin,
Good to hear from you! I understand where you and Mary are coming from but still humbly disagree with your reasoning.
Since when is it the role of government to investigate the source of funding for a building being built on legitimately purchased property? This is an incredibly dangerous line of reasoning that gives government an overwhelming ability to shut down buildings, projects, and communities in the name of “freedom.”
Let’s take what you said here: “Would you allow anyone who has killed your family to build a house next to yours, people who say they want to kill you as well? I don’t believe you would say, “Well, the law allows them to build here, so…” No, I believe you would fight to stop the erection of that building and to prohibit those who want to harm you from living near you.”
Sure, in such a case I would probably not be too enthusiastic about the building popping up. But you are rushing into a broad generalization that because a mosque is being built next to Ground Zero that it must be being built by people who actively participated in 9/11. That is a ridiculous accusation, and if that’s the basis for preventing the construction of the mosque God help the U.S.
Building a mosque does not equate to Sharia law. And let’s remember that Sharia law itself has taken its uglier, more violent forms in the countries the U.S. has actively intervened in over the past 50 years. The U.S. has funded brutal dictators and extremist groups in Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan, all of which are incredibly unstable today and represent unending conflicts.
How is it that you get hyped up over the mosque at Ground Zero and seem to neglect to understand how Muslims must feel when we build permanent military bases on their sacred, holy land? The building of the mosque is no physical act of force, aggression, or slaughter. It pales in comparison to the damage the U.S. has wrought on Muslim countries over the past 50 years; damage which has led to the increase of radical extremist groups incensed with U.S. foreign policy.
Remember what bin Laden himself said in October 2001: “America won’t get out of this crisis until it gets out of the Arabian Peninsula, and until it stops its support of Israel.”
Even these radical extremist groups are not saying things like, “Our war on America will last until they all convert to Islam.” Such a statement is ridiculous and you would get very few people to support such a cause. Rather, these groups are using terrorist tactics as retaliation against the U.S. for occupying their sacred homeland.
Ron Paul commented during the 2008 presidential debates, “If we think that we can do what we want around the world and not incite hatred, then we have a problem. They don’t come here to attack us because we’re rich and we’re free. They come and they attack us because we’re over there. I mean, what would we think if we were – if other foreign countries were doing that to us?”
Let’s see… a mosque at Ground Zero (supposed Muslim aggression toward the U.S.) vs. years of propping up undemocratic governments, economic sanctions on the Middle East, and arming extremist groups (actual U.S. aggression). When you put the U.S.’s actual aggression in the Middle East in proportion to 9/11 and the Ground Zero mosque, there is little comparison. 9/11 was a tragedy, but the amount of individuals who have died with the helping hand of the U.S. government and CIA in the Middle East adds up to an astonishing amount of 9/11′s. I’d give them more reason to be angry toward the U.S. than Americans have for getting angry at a single, nonviolent mosque (all the while insulting the largest religious group on the planet).
All I’m saying is to put it in proportion. You are afraid that there MIGHT be a hint of aggression from people who MIGHT want to impose Sharia law on the U.S. by building a mosque in New York. You really think that Muslims in general want to take over the U.S. and impose Sharia law, and that they will start this process by building a mosque?
Sorry for the rant, but I just find the whole thing absurd and a complete waste of time and energy, especially if you ignore how much U.S. foreign policy has provoked and encouraged radicalism in Islam. Don’t fall into the uncreative, brutal, and discriminatory trap of government!
I’m not disagreeing with your thoughts on American aggression, however and don’t take this wrong, you’re young. I’m not necessarily saying that all older people are wiser, but in general, they have had more experiences than young people and hopefully they learned from their mistakes. I’m not saying I’m wiser than you, but merely that my life experiences have led me, over time, to form different opinions. Such is the case with the mosque.
Normally I would not be opposed to building a mosque near ground zero. There are already several mosques in NYC, so what’s the big deal with another one? Unfortunately, whether it’s because of American intervention or because we’re (white/rich/Christian/etc., take your pick), many Muslims want to kill Americans, INNOCENT Americans I might add.
9/11 was nothing but a terrorist attack against civilians! Those people were innocent of any wrongdoing. Somehow in my mind there is a difference between targeting civilians and targeting the military. Has America ever targeted civilians, YES, many times! BUT… does that justify them doing it to us?? NO!
I HATE it that America has targeted civilians, but two wrongs don’t make a right!! What we have today is a number of Muslim extremists(??) declaring “Death to America”. Whether our government calls it “War” or not does not change the fact that we are at war with Islamic terrorists! Did we start it… maybe, but that’s not my point.
When you are at currently at war with Islamic extremists, everyone associated with Islam is naturally suspect because of the terroristic style of warfare. You never know when or where your enemy will attack. It’s different than typical warfare where battle lines are drawn.
I’m not saying they CAN’T build the Mosque there. I’m just saying let’s investigate EVERYTHING about this mosque BEFORE we allow them to build. What would you say if an investigation finds Al Quida, the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. are behind the funding of this mosque? Would you honestly say, it’s a free county, they can build it here? If that’s your answer, then I have to strongly disagree with you. When we see evil, we cannot turn a blind eye to it.
The problem is that all too frequently, here in America, Islamic schools and mosques are teaching Anti-American/Death to America studies. I have no problem with their religion, but when they are teaching/preaching “Death to America”… I have a problem with that! Even if we incited their hatred of America. It is NOT the American people that incited their hatred… It is our GOVERNMENT, yet it is innocent Americans that must pay, not the people responsible!
“Do you really think Muslims in general want to take over…?” In general no, but we’re not talking about moderate Muslims here. We’re talking about “extremists”. However when you understand Islam, you’ll realize they are not extremists at all. They are merely following the tenants of their religion. As I understand it, a TRUE follower of Islam is what we would call an extremist.
You’re young. As I’ve grown older, I’ve become much more cautious and cynical. It’s better to be safe than sorry.
On a side note: Even you have to agree that Sharia law is the opposite of freedom. Look at what is happening in England. Sharia law is beginning to trump the laws of England. Do you not agree that such a thing is possible in America? We must be ever watchful otherwise the same thing will happen here.
I don’t know if pulling our troops out of Iraq/Afghanastan/Middle East, will cause the Muslims to stop attacking America, but I would be willing to give it a try. Then again, I’m not going to ignore Muslims here in America.
“But you are rushing into a broad generalization that because a mosque is being built next to Ground Zero that it must be being built by people who actively participated in 9/11.”
I’m not saying that at all. I never said they “actively” participated, but what if they celebrated and were in total agreement with the 9/11 bombers? Would you feel differently then?
The Inman touts “freedom” and “tolerance”, but his words belie his actions. He is anything but tolerant. Even though we are not a democracy, the majority of New Yorkers do not want the the mosque built. An understanding person would take this into consideration, but the Inman even more strongly defends his position. He wants the American people to be tolerant, but he is not willing to be.
Everything about this mosque is a slap in the face to Americans. If you can’t see that… I don’t know what more I can say.
I think people are putting too much weight on the issue of Islam. Islam as a culture is greatly misunderstood and generalized, I believe the radical fringe of Islam and a great deal of the West misunderstand the roots and true meaning behind the Qu’ran. I don’t want this to become a debate over Islam itself, but I will say that from my research on the topic it is clear there is more to the story than people like Pamela Geller and Geert Wilders are willing to mention. To say that a “true follower” of Islam is an extremist is incredibly off base, in my opinion. It is a complete myth that “a good Muslim must kill a Christian” and other such statements that are placed against Islam.
I am not promoting Islam but neither am I denouncing it. What I am suggesting is that U.S. foreign policy has done more than any other single factor to contribute to the radicalized Islam movement we see today. Of course I don’t support Sharia law in the forms being implemented in Europe, but that’s an issue of government and not religion.
Even if the mosque is a “slap in the face” to Americans, I think our feelings will be fine. We’re grownups and can understand that not everything will go our way, such is the case in a free and responsible society. Again, if the majority of the people in NYC aren’t Muslim and won’t attend the mosque, that’s all the more reason why the mosque itself won’t survive. There are plenty of people in this world who could be more understanding (the Inman included), but this is no excuse to blast an entire religion or justify government involvement.
One last point. The reason some Muslims may have been in “total agreement” with the 9/11 bombers is precisely because the U.S. has killed thousands of Muslims over the years. The last thing I want to do is justify the cowardly acts of 9/11, but it is important to put things into perspective. The amount of innocent people who died on 9/11 pales in comparison to the amount of people in the Middle East killed through U.S. wars and sanctions. Both sides have a right to be angry, but if they fail to put things into a balanced perspective they are destined to become more radical and destructive in their ends.